Huddlers in the News

“What’s bringing me joy is being in an office after 5 years of WFH,” shared a delighted B2B leader who just changed companies. “I missed being around people, and having the separation between work life and home life,” she added. Another Huddler chimed in, “I’m so jealous - I started dressing up for myself just to create a feeling of separation.” My mind rattled with questions.

Q: Will CMOs (and the companies they work for) be more successful going back to the office?

A: Yes.

Q: Do you have any statistical evidence to back up your supposition?

A: No.

Q: Then what makes you so sure that in-office companies will outperform 100% virtual companies?

A: Human nature.

Q: Can you be a little less pithy?

A: Certainly. Most humans do better when they are surrounded by others who share common goals, values, and experiences. Casual in-person “water cooler” conversations spread information faster and lead to the sharing of nascent ideas. It is easier to build accountability in person. It is easier to read the room when you’re in the room.

Q: Do you at least have “anecdata” to support your argument?

A: Sure. I was speaking to a partner at a big law firm and asked him about the development of their associates during the first two years of Covid. He said without blinking, “They are a full 2 years behind past associates. They missed hours of training they would have received just by being in the partner's office.”

Q: That’s a very specific situation. Can you broaden the aperture?

A: Sure. It is just easier to build a team that works in sync when they are physically together. Critical non-verbal feedback doesn’t come through Slack, email, or even Zoom.

Q: Wait, isn’t your company, CMO Huddles, 100% virtual?

A: Guilty as charged. We make it work, but I have no doubt we’d be even more effective if we were in an office together.

Q: Going back to the office is not the CMO's decision. Why are you even bringing this up?

A: You may have heard that CMOs change jobs often (perhaps more frequently than they’d like). I’m just saying that when considering your next opportunity, add “has an office” to your criteria. And not just because it suits you, but also because that company is likely to be more successful.

Q: This feels like retro advice, especially in the GenAI era. Does the proliferation of GenAI and agentic workflows change your opinion?

A: No. It enhances my argument. Famous futurist Alan Toffler projected that as our world becomes increasingly hi-tech, the need for hi-touch interactions also grows. Bots can’t build culture. And culture famously eats strategy (AI-enhanced or otherwise) for lunch.

Q: Isn’t hybrid a better solution?

A: Perhaps. The ? becomes how much face-to-face time the CMO gets with their boss, board, peers, and direct reports. If everyone is in the office on different days, it becomes quite challenging to meet regularly and build strong, productive relationships.

Q: It feels like you’re barking at the moon.

A: I’m a penguin. I don’t bark.

Written by Drew Neisser

Listen Here | From Renegade Marketers Unite, Episode 483: From Tactics to Strategy with Michael Watkins

If you're reacting more than leading, it's time to rethink your strategy mindset.

Michael Watkins joins Drew Neisser to explore how CMOs can evolve from tactical executors to strategic leaders. Hear how to develop enterprise thinking, lead across silos, and apply Watkins' RPM model to every level of your marketing org.

Want more? Check out the rest of the conversation on YouTube.

What You’ll Learn:

• How to apply the RPM (Recognize, Prioritize, Mobilize) model to level up strategic thinking
• The difference between enterprise leadership and functional execution
• Why most marketers struggle with long-term thinking—and how to fix it

For full show notes and transcripts, visit https://renegademarketing.com/podcast/

Listen Here | From Renegade Marketers Unite, Episode 482: Juggling CMO+: How to Lead Across the Business

Wearing the CMO+ hat rewires the role. You pick up a second lane, your calendar tightens, and perceptions shift from “just the marketer,” a label no one should wear, to business leader.

The path is demanding, but when the plus lines up with company priorities and earns trust across the business, the impact is unmistakable.

In this episode, Drew sits down with Sandy Ono, EVP and CMO at OpenText, who leads global marketing across ten business units while also owning partnerships and alliances. She treats both as one go-to-market, aligning partners and the field around a single story, running the forecast together, and keeping a steady rhythm so co-selling and co-marketing stay aimed at the same targets.

Three Actions Behind Sandy’s CMO+ Success:

1. Mindset: Claim growth as the job and step closer to revenue through partnerships
2. Skillset: Learn forecasting, deal construction, and the weekly rigor of partner sales
3. Toolset: Build the operating rhythm that connects co-selling, co-marketing, and accountability at scale

Plus:

• How to choose a plus that aligns with company growth priorities
• How to juggle both roles with capacity planning and clear priorities
• How to protect brand integrity while telling a shared story with partners
• How to measure progress with sourced pipeline, influenced revenue, retention, and feedback loops into product

Weighing a plus or already living one? You’ll find proven moves here.

If you're a B2B CMO, you can meet Sandy and another 100 incredible marketing leaders at the CMO Super Huddle in Palo Alto, California on November 6th and 7th. She’ll be speaking on a panel about how CMOs are leading the charge with GenAI.

For full show notes and transcripts, visit https://renegademarketing.com/podcast/

“The hardest part for me as a CMO is managing expectations,” shared the CMO of a $6 billion tech company. “Leadership around a CMO wants more demand, more brand, and they want it immediately,” she added. This is not an unusual scenario. However, it is a critical one to break down, as it also leads to many hasty moves that can doom CMOs.

Managing Expectations is Everything

There’s a good reason the first chapter of my first book, The CMO’s Periodic Table, was Setting Expectations. If there’s a mismatch in expectations, the CMO loses, even if the CEO’s, board’s, or investor’s expectations are lunacy. It's on the CMO to get alignment.

Managing Expectations Starts Before You Take the Job

Landing a CMO job is tricky. There is a lot of pressure to promise the moon, or at least more than your predecessor. This is a trap. Odds are, a substantial improvement to a company’s growth rate will not result from marketing wizardry alone. And it certainly won’t happen in one quarter. Experienced CMOs know this and set expectations with clear timelines and milestones before they start, and won’t take the job if these things aren’t acceptable to the hiring execs.

Hasty Move #1: Assuming Your Predecessor Is a Moron

“I think CMOs do each other a disservice when they don’t build on the work of their predecessors,” noted the 3x CMO referenced above. You’ve got a lot to do in your first year, so understanding what’s working and what isn’t is essential. The only way you can do this is not to make assumptions and avoid disregarding everything that’s already in the works. Past initiatives may be just about ready to bloom.

Hasty Move #2: Redoing the Website

You may think the message is wrong. And that the visuals are off the mark. But rushing to rebuild the website is a fool’s errand. Many brands are already struggling to get organic traffic – rebuilding your website is a sure way to see that trend accelerate. Instead, start with a few hypotheses and run as many A/B tests as you can [and fix your LLM exposure issues]. If site architecture is the ultimate problem, fine. But more likely, you have a differentiation problem, one that will take a corporate-wide initiative to fix.

Hasty Move #3: Revamping the Brand without Repositioning

There’s a reason that some CEOs see Marketing as the “arts and crafts” department. Too many of their conversations with marketers involve color schemes and logo designs. Your logo may indeed suck. Your visual design may also suck. And those things should be fixed, BUT not before you have a new go-to-market story that is truly differentiated from your competition. Getting there often requires meaningful changes to the product, pricing, and customer support. It requires repositioning the brand.

Don’t try to put a new coat of paint on an old barn. Rebuild the barn from the ground up.

When CMOs set expectations around differentiation, they get the time they need to make lots of good things happen.

Written by Drew Neisser

Listen Here | From Renegade Marketers Unite, Episode 481: AEO in B2B: Earning Your Spot in AI Answers

“How are we going to show up in LLMs?”

That’s the new CEO question keeping B2B CMOs on alert.

As AI-powered search reshapes how buyers find answers, B2B brands need a new organic strategy—Answer Engine Optimization (AEO). In this episode, Drew Neisser brings together two AEO trailblazers: Guy Yalif (Webflow) and Omer Gotlieb (Salespeak). Together, they tackle what it really takes to earn your place in AI answers. Forget keyword stuffing—this is about understanding how LLMs ingest, rank, and cite information, and how B2B marketers can respond now.

You’ll learn how to earn placement in AI-generated answers by mastering the four pillars of AEO:

1. Content: Answer real buyer questions clearly and concisely.
2. Technical: Make your site machine-readable.
3. Authority: Earn credibility where buyers AND models are looking.
4. Measurement: Track share of voice across critical questions, then iterate.

Also in this episode:

• What LLMs want—but often can’t find—on B2B websites
• How to build a question-driven content strategy using sales calls, support tickets, and win-loss data.
• Why share of voice (across buyer questions) is the new metric for AI visibility.
• How to serve two audiences at once: humans and machines

Whether you're losing traffic to AI summaries or just trying to future-proof your content strategy, this episode is your practical playbook for showing up when it matters most.

Join us at 2025’s CMO Super Huddle on November 7th in Palo Alto, where Webflow is a founding sponsor. In a panel on AEO, Guy will share how to get your brand found in AI-powered answers—plus, attendees will receive personalized AEO assessments.

For full show notes and transcripts, visit https://renegademarketing.com/podcast/

“My last CMO failed me. How do I avoid hiring the wrong CMO?” asked a frustrated CEO from a health tech startup. The audience of nearly 100 marketers leaned in to see how the panelists would handle this lit grenade. Spicy answers to follow, perhaps exaggerated since I wasn’t recording.

Inside a CMO–CEO Disconnect

Let me set the stage. This was my 2nd panel of the evening at the GTM Leader Society Marketing Exec Salon in San Mateo, CA. Still on NY time, I was getting a little punchy. Not sure my fellow panelists could claim this excuse, but we all came out swinging.

First up, Jacob Warwick, master negotiator and founder of Think Warwick, jabbed in his stentorian voice, “How much of that problem is of your own making?” The CEO acknowledged that perhaps 50% of the blame was hers. [Okay, self-criticism is good.]

Then exec recruiting legend Kate Bullis of ZRG Partners asked in an impossibly friendly yet firm manner, “What is it that you wanted your CMO to do?” The CEO shared, “I wanted her to help grow the business.” [Not unreasonable.]

Hugh Marshall of Heidrick & Struggles, a powerhouse in his own right, weighed in with another tough question: “Do you think the CMO understood your vision?” The CEO paused and considered the question, and responded, “Look, I have a background in marketing, and I know most marketers can sell snow to Eskimos, so I should have known better. But this CMO didn’t get anything done.” [Hated hearing this part.]

Lessons from the Panel: What CMOs Must Do

Then it was my turn. Grabbing the mic from Hugh, I blurted, “Maybe you’re not ready for a CMO.” Recognizing that this sounded harsh, I continued, “At the startup stage, it’s fine for the CEO to run marketing – read Allyson Letteri’s book, The Standout Startup – I’m fairly certain she advises this approach.” “Just hire a demand gen person and get on with it,” I advised. [For the record, I couldn’t remember the name of the book on stage.]

The conversation then shifted to other questions closer to the announced topic, Strengthening Your Credibility with the Broader Exec Team. I don’t have space for all the wisdom shared by my esteemed colleagues, so here’s my TL;DR:

• CMOs must set and manage expectations
• CMOs must educate their colleagues on how and when marketing will impact the business
• Savvy CMOs share ownership of pipeline numbers with Sales and do everything they can to “make sales love them.”
• Savvy CMOs share brand tracking data AND revenue-related data in every board presentation (leading + lagging indicators)

Staying Warm in the Coldest Job

Asked to wrap things up, I encouraged the audience to consider the differential temperature inside and outside an Emperor penguin huddle in Antarctica – a mind-boggling 70°. CMOs need to protect themselves from the coldest job in the C-suite. So yes, I suggested they huddle with their fellow CMOs, to share, to care, and to dare each to greatness.

Written by Drew Neisser

Listen Here | From Renegade Marketers Unite, Episode 479: Leading Beyond Marketing: The CMO+

CMO tenure is a hot topic. Everyone wants to know the secret to staying power.

One proven path is stepping out of the narrow marketing lane and showing up as more than the title suggests. Call it CMO+.

The challenge is figuring out what your “plus” will be and how to put it into practice.

To help you understand what CMO+ looks like in action, Nikhil Chawla (Resilience), Isabelle Papoulias (EliteOps), and Ali McCarthy (Amplify Your Voice Studio) share their own pluses, how they discovered them, and what changed when they leaned in. Each story is different, but the theme is the same: Credibility grows when CMOs contribute in ways that extend beyond marketing.

In this episode:

• Nikhil on adding customer voice as his plus, linking post-sale and product, and feeding live feedback into roadmap and revenue calls.
• Isabelle on bringing operations into marketing, using V2MOM to align goals, resources, and execution across sales, enablement, finance, and ops.
• Ali on leading with emotional intelligence, coaching leaders to read the room, ease friction, and keep teams focused on the customer journey.

Plus:

• How to spot the plus that fits both your strengths and your company’s needs
• Why credibility comes from saying yes to the right opportunities
• The link between curiosity, influence, and long-term career resilience
• How CMOs expand their impact without burning out

If you’re ready to grow your role beyond marketing, this one’s for you!

For full show notes and transcripts, visit https://renegademarketing.com/podcast/

“I’m struggling to understand CMOs,” shared a co-founder of a martech company, adding, “I mean, how is LinkedIn followership a top priority?” He then shared a screen grab with a CMO’s boast about follower growth. Fortunately, this was a text thread, so I could pause and think about this from multiple angles...

The Problem With Follower Obsession

At first glance, follower growth appears to be a classic CMO vanity metric.

Like site traffic and leads, followers of the company’s LinkedIn page are a far cry from SQOs and revenue. Given the limited organic reach that LinkedIn provides for brand posts, it’s unclear whether a larger follower count equals greater reach. Depending on the mix of new followers, it’s quite possible that engagement rates (and reach) will actually drop over time.

So, where is the business value in LinkedIn follower growth of company accounts?

Honestly, I'm not sure. It’s definitely not the same as an increase in newsletter subscribers, since typically open rates remain consistent, assuming you’re attracting the right target. More subscribers, more reach.

And reach does have business value. The 2025 Edelman-LinkedIn B2B Thought Leadership Impact Report highlights the hidden buyer phenomenon and the need to reach a much broader audience to persuade the whole buying committee.

When LinkedIn Growth Actually Means Something

Can’t you find one positive in growing LinkedIn followers?

Yes! Assuming this growth is not driven by ads, it is a clear indication that the company’s LinkedIn posts are resonating with its target. In other words, that company’s content is above average and getting noticed. And that doesn’t suck.

Would you recommend that other CMOs put energy here?

Absolutely not. There’s one important statistic that every business should acknowledge. LinkedIn posts from individuals garner 5 times the organic engagement of corporate posts. 5X. To increase your company's exposure on LinkedIn, help your executives to post thoughtfully multiple times a week. This will drive a dramatic increase in reach.

But seriously, does anyone care about individual content anymore? Isn’t everyone just watching TikTok videos?

First, short videos rock, and viewership is skyrocketing across platforms like TikTok, YouTube, and LinkedIn. So, help your execs create short vertical videos. However, and more importantly, high-quality thought leadership remains crucial. According to the LinkedIn/Edelman study, 95% of hidden buyers say that high-quality thought leadership makes them more receptive to sales and marketing outreach.”

So, Do Followers Matter After All?

Given this last statement, our boasting CMO may be gaining more corporate followers due to the consistent “high-quality thought leadership” they are producing. In which case, there may indeed be significant business value hidden in this otherwise seemingly insignificant metric. Yes, I just waffled.

Having come full circle, I told the CEO, “Yup, you may not always understand CMOs, but God bless you for trying!”

Written by Drew Neisser

“I’m done being an operator,” shared a 3x CMO with an extraordinary track record of driving double-digit growth year after year. Fresh out of a tech company that grew from $100 to $300 million in 4 years, he lamented, “The job just stopped being fun.” I nodded empathetically and pondered, Why does this keep happening to highly competent CMOs, and what, if anything, can be done about it?

The Great CMO Burnout is real.

And it's not just about long hours or demanding CEOs. It's about brilliant marketers getting buried under operational quicksand—drowning in budget reconciliations, vendor negotiations, and endless attribution debates while the strategic thinking that got them hired gets pushed to nights and weekends.

Too Much Ops, Too Little Strategy

Most CMOs spend 70% of their time on tasks that don't require a CMO.

Let me say that again. Most CMOs spend 70% of their time on tasks that don't require a CMO. They're debugging marketing automation, reviewing keyword buys with junior reps from the PE-firm, and sitting through vendor demos for tools that promise to solve problems they didn't know they had. Meanwhile, the board wonders why marketing isn't driving more strategic value.

The promotion trap is killing marketing leadership.

Here's the cruel irony: the better you get at marketing, the more operational responsibilities get dumped on your plate. You start as a strategic thinker who can craft compelling narratives and identify untapped growth opportunities. But success means bigger budgets, which means more vendors, which means more meetings about meetings. Before you know it, you're a glorified project manager with a marketing title.

Delegation as a Lifeline

The solution isn't more hours—it's radical delegation.

Smart CMOs are building mini-COOs within their marketing organizations. Call them Marketing Operations Directors, Revenue Operations Managers, or Chief of Staff—whatever works. The point is creating a buffer between strategic thinking and operational execution.

One recovering CMO told me, "I hired someone whose job was literally to go to meetings I didn't need to be in. Best investment I ever made."

Protecting Strategic Time

Reclaim your Mondays (and your sanity).

Block every Monday morning for strategic thinking. No meetings, no Slack, no email. Just you, a whiteboard, and the big questions: Where are we winning? Where are we losing? What bets should we make next quarter?

The operational stuff will still be there on Monday afternoon. But your ability to think strategically? That disappears the moment you let urgency crowd out importance.

Bottom Line

If you're not having fun, take a break. Then rejigger your schedule so you're just focused on the big stuff.

The most successful CMOs I know protect their strategic thinking time as if it were their most valuable asset. Because it is. Your team can execute campaigns, optimize funnels, and manage vendors. But they can't replace your ability to see around corners and connect dots that others miss.

Written by Drew Neisser

Listen Here | From Renegade Marketers Unite, Episode 477: Retention as Your Revenue Engine

Putting the customer at the center has been preached for years, yet too often, B2B marketers are told to chase net new logos and leave expansion for someone else. That approach leaves growth on the table. Delighted customers are your advocates, your storytellers, your engine for long-term success.

Every company says it listens to customers. In this conversation, Drew and guests Allyson Havener (HG Insights), JD Dillon (Tigo Energy), and Alan Gonsenhauser (Demand Revenue) show how listening turns into concrete action, how feedback becomes a system, and how customer voices drive lasting growth.

In this episode:

• Allyson on how reviews, surveys, and customer spotlights at TrustRadius feed marketing and influence buying decisions early
• JD on how Tigo’s Green Glove Program creates loyalty through installer support and a seal of quality
• Alan on why retention is a financial driver CMOs must track as closely as revenue

Plus:

• Why framing churn as retention keeps teams motivated
• How to bring the customer voice into leadership discussions
• The metrics that capture customer impact, from adoption to earned growth
• How to operationalize cross-functional alignment around the customer

Catch this episode to hear how customer voices shape strategy, culture, and growth.

For full show notes and transcripts, visit https://renegademarketing.com/podcast/