Huddlers in the News

Listen Here | From Renegade Marketers Unite, Episode 428: Bold B2B Brand Journeys

How do B2B leaders successfully navigate brand transformations? In this episode, Drew Neisser explores the art and science of rebranding with three exceptional marketers—Joy Neely, Heather Salerno, and Will Meier. From reclaiming past equity to aligning brands with new business goals, this conversation reveals the key strategies behind effective brand evolution.

In this episode:

• Joy Neely shares the bold move to bring Medvantx back to its roots, the challenges of reintroducing an old name, and how she balanced sales and marketing priorities to support a successful rebrand.
  

• Heather Salerno explains how Appcast’s rebrand evolved from a refresh to a strategic overhaul, aligning the company’s identity with its rapid growth and new offerings.
  

• Will Meier discusses building a family of brands at FM, the decision-making process behind a house-of-brands approach, and the challenges of maintaining premium positioning across diverse markets.
  

You’ll also learn:

• How to involve employees in the rebranding process and ensure alignment across teams.
• Metrics and KPIs to track brand health and measure rebrand success.
• Tips for overcoming resistance and fostering organizational buy-in.

Whether you’re embarking on a rebrand, refreshing your identity, or simply curious about what makes brand transformations succeed, this episode is packed with actionable insights for B2B marketers. 

For full show notes and transcripts, visit https://renegademarketing.com/podcast/

“We lowered our cost by 70% and doubled the impact on pipeline ” shared a gleeful SaaS CMO who stopped exhibiting at their industry’s largest trade show. Instead, they hosted their own events near the show. It was a brave and inspiring move for those in 2025 planning mode.

The Trade Show Trade-Off

Many B2B marketers are again spending 40-50% of their entire budgets on events. That’s almost the same percentage as it was before the pandemic. The problem is that full-loaded exhibiting costs have gone up significantly since 1999 – at least 25% when you include travel, entertainment, booth rental, creation, premiums, and staffing costs. So unless marketers are >25% more efficient at securing meetings during these shows, their event budget is already underperforming.

In the case of the quoted marketer, they were spending roughly $500,000 in 3 days on one show. Even with the exhibiting cancellation fee, their new approach reduced their costs to under $150k. And because their customers and prospects were coming into town for the show, they were still able to secure all the meetings they would have had as exhibitors. They were also able to take advantage of nearby customer offices, which created a comfortable “unsalesy” environment.

Are There Risks in Leaving the Show Floor?

You betcha. First, your brand’s mind-share in the industry will decline while exhibitors will see theirs stay steady (if they’re boring) and rise (if they do something distinctive). This probably won’t cost you late-stage deals but could hurt your top-of-funnel lead flow down the road. You might miss out on PR/influencer opportunities and the random conversation with a prospect or former customer that yields renewed interest.

In this case, the marketer planned to reinvest the savings in other marketing initiatives that would build mind-share and didn’t anticipate much downside.

The other downside is the important bonding that happens among employees, partners, and customers at trade shows. That too can be mitigated in other, perhaps less expensive ways, assuming you care.

Is This Really About Not Exhibiting at Big Trade Shows?

Nope. The big idea here is to look at your biggest budget items, especially the sacred cows, and question their efficacy. Maybe you’ve been running ABM programs for 2-3 years with only modest success. Perhaps your content investment (including tech) has grown faster than its usefulness. It may not be about dumping ABM or your content program BUT it could be about doing these things in a radically different manner.

This thinking will help you get ahead of the dreaded “do more with less” request. Instead, you’ll be able to present how you’ll “do more with the same,” and could “do even more with more.”

And wouldn’t that be flocking awesome

Written by Drew Neisser

Listen Here | From Renegade Marketers Unite, Episode 427: No Bullsh*t Strategy: The Art of Being the Only One

What does it mean to have a strategy? In this episode, Drew Neisser hosts Alex M. H. Smith, author of No Bullsht Strategy*, for a candid discussion on stripping away the jargon and getting to the heart of what makes a business thrive. Together, they dive into what it means to build a strategy that defines not just what your business does—but what makes it the only one of its kind.

In this episode, Alex M. H. Smith explains:

• Why “only” is better than “best” when crafting a competitive strategy.
• The pitfalls of focusing solely on communication while neglecting the operational and strategic foundations of the business.
• The difference between strategy and positioning
  
• How to align your strategy with true customer value, ensuring it resonates in the market while setting you apart from the competition.
  
• How to identify the mistakes in your previous thinking to craft a strategy that truly moves the needle.
  

Whether you’re building a strategy from scratch or rethinking your current approach, this episode offers invaluable insights into creating a clear, actionable plan that delivers unique value to the market. For full show notes and transcripts, visit https://renegademarketing.com/podcast/

New research from CMO Huddles, the flocking awesome community of B2B marketing leaders, reveals a stark reality facing today’s marketing leaders: the relentless focus on demand generation (demand gen) has led to a “death spiral” that threatens long-term growth and stability. Despite diminishing returns, most B2B marketers remain stuck in a cycle of over-investment in demand gen at the expense of critical brand-building efforts.

Troubling Trends in Demand Gen Overload

In a recent survey of over 130 B2B marketing leaders shared insights into their budget priorities for 2025. The findings paint a concerning picture:

• 51% plan to increase their demand gen budgets, despite tepid results from similar investments in 2024.

• Only 22% aim to prioritize brand and reputation-building efforts—essential for fostering trust and differentiation in crowded markets.

• Demand gen hiring outpaces strategic investments, with 30% of marketers focusing on filling these roles while underinvesting in innovative skills like generative AI (10%) and data analytics (22%).

This unbalanced focus perpetuates short-term thinking, leaving critical opportunities for brand differentiation and customer trust on the table.

As Drew Neisser, Penguin-in-Chief of CMO Huddles, bluntly observed:

“Marketers are doubling down on demand gen — even when it clearly isn’t working. Meanwhile, they neglect the foundational work of building awareness, trust, and a differentiated brand. They are going down a rabbit hole that is only getting deeper.”

The Case Against Demand Gen as a Lone Strategy

While demand gen can help capture the 5% of prospects actively in-market, it neglects the 95% who are not ready to buy. The over-reliance on this tactic is compounded by inefficient spending on MarTech, which consumes up to 20% of marketing budgets but often remains underutilized.

The data shows the cracks in the foundation:

• Sales conversion rates are dismal, with success reported in just 20% of leads.

• Buyers frequently cite a lack of urgency and trust as reasons for disengagement.

Educating the C-Suite: A Critical Challenge

One of the biggest barriers to change is the mindset of CEOs, CFOs, and private equity (PE) firms. Too often, these stakeholders view marketing as a "gumball machine" that should generate immediate ROI, undermining efforts to build sustainable, long-term growth.

As Neisser warns,

“Increasing demand gen budgets guarantees even shorter tenure for already under-the-gun CMOs.”

Marketers must help their executive teams understand the long-term value of brand-building—an investment that pays dividends in trust, loyalty, and differentiation.

A Call to Action for B2B Marketers

B2B marketing is at a crossroads. The current demand gen-heavy approach is unsustainable and counterproductive. By refocusing on brand clarity, customer trust, and long-term strategies, marketers can reclaim their path to sustainable success.

Ready to rethink your approach? Sign up for our free Starter program and prepare for flocking awesomeness. 

“Our CFO is asking for the ROI for each new marketing hire,” shared an inquisitive 3X CMO from a SaaS startup. “This is a new one for me, and I’d welcome your formulas,” the CMO added. After my knee-jerk outrage, I had questions.

Can the ROI of Every Employee Be Calculated?

In theory, yes. You can create a formula that guestimates the impact that employee’s role will have on pipeline generation, close rates, retention rates, employee recruitment yield, and efficiencies gained by having a lower-cost employee do the work (versus the CMO). The formula looks like this: (Revenue impact + efficiency savings - employee cost) / by (employee cost) x 100.

Is It Really That Simple?

Of course not. Let’s say that the new employee is a content creator. And that content plays a number of roles in the acquisition process. For example, the content could result in an increase in organic website traffic, some of which become sales-qualified opportunities. If you have sophisticated attribution tracking, perhaps you can credit some portion of the projected value of that SQL to that content. Perhaps.

But this is only part of the value of this employee. What if they come up with the insight that drives an entire campaign that yields 5x ROI? How much do you apportion to that employee versus the entire team? How do you put value on a great collaborator who inspires others to do their best work? What if they understand the customer and market so well they contribute to a product innovation?

Where does “opportunity cost” fit into this calculation? In other words, what if you don’t make this hire and the competition kicks your butt with their content? And what about lifetime value? Won't a good employee create more value over time? Yeah, it’s feeling more absurd by the second.

So, Is This an Absurd Request by the CFO?

My first reaction was, “This is insanity.” How can CMOs possibly calculate the ROI for every employee in their department when they can barely calculate the ROI of their entire marketing budget? The CMOs in this Huddle were less chagrined than I and offered helpful suggestions on how to reply to this CFO. Their advice came down to speaking the language of the CFO. I’ll explain.

Learn to Speak “Spreadsheet”

CFOs live in spreadsheets. As Peter Finter, CMO of KX, shared on a recent episode of CMO Huddles Studio, “You need to know CFOs love language–spreadsheets.” “Show them how marketing will impact revenue on a predictable basis, and you're speaking their language,” he added. Admittedly, this doesn’t address the ROI per employee question, but it does provide an important place to start.

Every CMO needs to have a spreadsheet that projects marketing’s contribution to the business.

Final Thought

Whether or not you can precisely calculate the ROI for each employee, it is not a useless exercise. It will force you to consider where and how your department is making the greatest impact and allocate your investments accordingly.

Written by Drew Neisser

Listen Here | From Renegade Marketers Unite, Episode 426: B2B Marketing Strategy: 2025 Edition

What’s on the horizon for B2B marketing in 2025? In this episode, guest host Jamie Gier steps in for Drew Neisser to explore where top CMOs are placing their bets for the future. Joined by Charles Groome of Biz2Credit, Tom Bianchi of Acquia, and Josh Leatherman of Service Express, this conversation dives deep into the strategies, tools, and tactics poised to drive success in the coming year.

In this episode:

• Charles Groome shares his top three bets for 2025, including brand-led events, cross-channel marketing, and influencer strategies tailored to niche audiences.
  

• Tom Bianchi reveals how Acquia is aligning new product launches with focused segmentation and ABM tactics to optimize marketing ROI.
  

• Josh Leatherman explores how marketers can leverage AI to enhance analytics, drive predictability, and sharpen account-based sales and marketing strategies.
  

The group also explores the results from a 5-part poll series:

• 40% of marketers expect budget increases in 2025.
• Events are regaining their place as a top investment area, beating out online marketing.
• Demand generation continues to dominate, with 51% prioritizing it over brand building.
• Clarity and collaboration emerged as the most critical skills for marketing teams in 2025.
  
• Owned content and SEO are expected to deliver the highest ROI next year.
  

Tune in to hear how these marketing leaders are preparing for the challenges and opportunities of the year ahead—and take away actionable insights for your own 2025 planning.

For full show notes and transcripts, visit https://renegademarketing.com/podcast/

“Marketing is way too important to report to the CRO” espoused an experienced startup CEO. While B2B CMOs universally agree with this sentiment, I had lots of questions, especially since more senior marketers are being asked to report to someone other than the CEO. It’s an issue worth diving into.

Is Marketing Too Important to Report to the CRO?

It should be. The CEO, who made this statement, is Sion Lewis of UK-based Ciphr. Here is his rationale, “I think it is common in the UK for the CMO to work for the CRO which is what I inherited. The problem with that is CROs don't understand marketing, therefore it absolutely becomes a demand gen story. Where are my MQLs and SQL? What's the conversion rate? By the way, all of that is super important, and we talk about it every freaking day, but it's just table stakes, not the interesting stuff. Quite frankly, I treat it as tech. So that is why I took it out of the revenue leader and created a CMO function.”

Is It Really a CMO Role if It Reports to the CRO?

No, it’s not. At best it’s a VP of Marketing role. Most likely, it becomes a VP of DemandGen role that operates as a sales support function. More importantly, the CMO is unlikely to get regular face time with the CEO or have a peer-to-peer relationship with product, human resources, and customer success. Marketing doesn’t have a seat at the executive table. And all of this means that marketing isn’t influencing the overall go-to-market strategy.

Does It Matter if the CRO Came Up Through Marketing?

It could. With caveats. If the CRO was an effective marketing leader in an earlier life, then perhaps they can appreciate marketing’s broader impact on sales (a reputation that opens doors and closes deals faster, motivates employees, builds advocacy, etc.). The rubber meets the road when that CRO is allocating resources. Do they hire another salesperson when incremental funds become available or at least consider what would happen if those funds went into marketing?

Should CMOs Accept a CMO Role That Reports to the CRO? 

It depends. Have you been out of work for 6 months or more? If yes, give it strong consideration, especially if you like the culture, the CEO, and the category. It’s quite possible you could wait it out until either the CRO gets fired, moved or realizes you should report to someone else. This does happen. Especially if your CRO allows you direct access to the CEO and other C-Suite members along the way. And while you’re biding your time, think and act like an Impact Player (FYI, author Liz Wiseman will be speaking at the Super Huddle).

Should a CMO Who Is Between Opportunities Interview for a CMO Role That Reports to the CRO?

Absolutely. With all the energy you can muster. Why? First, it’s always good to hone your interviewing skills, and doing it well will boost your confidence. You may learn that you really like the opportunity and they may really like you. If it is a good cultural match, you might be able to negotiate a change in the reporting structure OR set a time limit of say, six months. Even if you don’t take the job or get an offer, you’ll make some friends who will want to work with you at their next stop. Assuming you keep up with your network.

Have another take on this?

Written by Drew Neisser

Listen Here | From Renegade Marketers Unite, Episode 425: Unlocking Marketing Attribution

Attribution is one of the toughest challenges for modern marketers—how do you measure what truly drives revenue in a complex, multi-touch journey? In this episode, Drew Neisser sits down with Taran Nandha, Founder and CEO of Growth Natives and DiGGrowth, to unpack the intricacies of marketing attribution and analytics.

In this episode:

• Taran identifies the top mistakes marketers make with attribution, from relying on vanity metrics to overlooking offline touchpoints.
• He explains the importance of aligning people, processes, and tools to build an effective attribution system that delivers insights aligned with business objectives.
• Learn how to move beyond first-touch and last-touch models by embracing multi-touch attribution and account-based analytics for a more complete picture of customer journeys.
  

You’ll also discover:

• How to connect and normalize data across platforms like CRMs, marketing automation tools, and ad channels.
• Practical tips on using cohorts and journey mapping to track ROI for events and campaigns over time.
  
• The role of AI in making sense of data and optimizing your marketing strategy.
  

Whether you’re new to attribution or looking to refine your approach, this episode is packed with actionable advice to help you prove the value of your marketing efforts and drive better business outcomes.  

For full show notes and transcripts, visit https://renegademarketing.com/podcast/

"Here comes the marketing person, they always want to do too much, too fast,” echoed a CMO from a multi-billion dollar software company. Offered as a warning for other CMOs when seeking to collaborate with their peers, my mind was spinning on the real issues here.

Of Course, CMOs Want to Get a Lot Done Quickly

The clock is ticking even before they start. That’s why many B2B CMOs have to present a 30/60/90-day plan just to secure a job. Inherent in this frequent (and annoying) request is an expectation of having an immediate impact. If CMOs were being asked for a 3-year plan, then their push for quick impact could and would happily shift. But I don’t see that happening, do you?

CEOs Expect CMOs to Be Instant Miracle Workers

I’ve written about this before but it’s worth revisiting in this context. The biggest mismatch in expectations between the CMO and the CEO is the time frame for meaningful impact. CEOs, particularly at PE/VC-backed companies, think in terms of quarterly not annual impact. This is so misguided as to almost be laughable. Reputations are built impression by impression, experience by experience, quarter after quarter. Sure, one brand, Chat GPT, reached 100 million users in 2 months. It was revolutionary. And free. Name another.

But What About the Fail-Fast Mentality Prescribed by Zuckerberg and Bezos?

Let’s separate tactics from strategy. Getting your overall business strategy right takes time. It’s not a marketing problem. It’s a company problem. Sure the CMO can help drive strategy, bringing together product, sales, customer service, finance, research, and HR to unite around a single vision. Great business strategies are enduring and require solid foundations. Weak strategies are disposable. If you want to fail fast and forever, go with the latter.

Speaking of Bezos, I’m currently listening to “Collision of Power: Trump, Bezos, and the Washington Post” by former Post editor Martin Baron. I’ve particularly enjoyed the parts on Bezos and how he approached transforming an old media stalwart into a digital-first publication. Before he started brainstorming on “fast fail” tactics, he worked with the executive team to define the vision. Notably, Bezos insisted on putting the customer (i.e. the reader, not the advertiser) at the center of the transformation. For several years after, the publication enjoyed extraordinary growth against a singular purpose - engage readers.

Great Strategies Drive Better Experiments

Ultimately, the goal is not to fail fast. The goal is to succeed fast. Doing that is much easier if you're working from a strong strategic foundation. There are always things to test. And no shortage of ideas. What CMOs need are filters to help sort the possible from the probable, the deluting from the additive. For example, if you’re putting the customer at the center of your brand, then simply asking, “Is this initiative good for our customer?” will filter out a lot of testable ideas.

Are You Trying to Do Too Much?

They surest way to fail in any job is to try to do too much at any even given time. For CMOs, the “peanut butter” effect is always a risk. Too many targets, too many campaigns, too many tech initiatives, too many product launches, and or too many events can assure minimal impact and maximum burnout. Too many priorities mean no priorities.

Written by Drew Neisser

Listen Here | From Renegade Marketers Unite, Episode 424: Marketing as a Business Driver

What does it take to turn marketing into a true driver of business success? In this episode, Drew dives deep into this question with three expert CMOs—Shirley Macbeth of Forrester, Dan Lowden of Blackbird.ai, and Ali McCarthy of Amplify Your Voice Studio—who reveal how they keep marketing aligned with business objectives while pushing the boundaries of creativity and strategy.

In this episode:

• Shirley Macbeth explains how Forrester’s “Plan on a Page” framework keeps marketing focused on top business objectives and the importance of prioritization in achieving meaningful results.
  

• Dan Lowden shares his proven “Marketing Playbook” that drives brand and revenue impact, detailing the role of compelling content in engaging target audiences and supporting sales.
  

• Ali McCarthy discusses the importance of a clear growth plan to align marketing with financial goals and maintain focus across the entire team.
  

You’ll also learn:

• How to prioritize effectively in a resource-constrained environment
• Ways to foster creativity within the structure of a strategic plan
• The role of AI in scaling personalized content and enhancing team productivity

Tune in to discover actionable insights on aligning marketing with business goals and making a measurable impact on revenue.

For full show notes and transcripts, visit https://renegademarketing.com/podcast/