Huddlers in the News

“Your role, if you do it well, should be the deputy CEO,” suggested Sion Lewis, CEO of Ciphr, a UK-based software start-up. The CMOs at our London Lunch Huddle jotted this down with trepidation. Their self-examination was instantaneous. I had questions. Many questions.

Does this only apply to CMOs at start-ups?

Sion's directive is particularly relevant to start-up CMOs. If you aren’t helping to drive strategy, you’re relegated to marketing tactician. As a former CMO (currently CEO of Boardwave) Phill Robinson put it, "One of the biggest mistakes I’ve seen CMOs make is not getting involved early in the strategic planning process. If you don’t have a seat at the table from the beginning, you’ll end up executing someone else’s vision."

Should all B2B CMOs aspire to be the unofficial deputy CEO?

Yes. I’m not suggesting this will be easy for CMOs, particularly at big companies with a C-Suite stocked with a CEO, COO, Chief-of-Staff, CHRO, CTO, and Chief Product Officer. But it’s definitely worth a shot. Explained Amanda Jobbins, currently the CMO of Vodafone Business, "To make an impact, the CMO must be in sync with the CEO's vision. It’s not just about reporting to them; it’s about co-creating the company's direction."

Can a CMO be successful but not be the unofficial deputy CEO?

Maybe. Let’s take a scenario in which the CEO has a chief strategist who is solely focused on the long-term direction of the company. In that case, the CMO must befriend the strategist and create a strong working relationship. This can be done by knowing more about the customer than anyone else in the organization. That requires regular conversations with customers, ongoing market research, setting up and owning Customer Advisory Boards, building customer communities, and hopefully, being an executive sponsor of a few high-profile customers.

What CEO behavior suggests you’re on the path to being the unofficial deputy CEO?

It’s often a progression. First, the CEO asks you to write their speeches. Then, you're the CEO's first call before Board Meetings. Then you're presenting GTM plans to the board. Then the CEO asks you to run a non-marketing initiative. As Amanda Jobbins shared, "If you're only responsible for marketing, it’s easy to be sidelined. You need to take on cross-functional roles—like partnerships or business development—so you’re seen as a business leader, not just a marketer."

Is this the future of the CMO role?

If yes, it’s a bright one. You, the CMO, have a secure seat at the table. You “own” strategy. Your purview is broader than marketing. Your CEO depends on you for ongoing guidance and to help drive the business forward. Fellow C-suite members see you as a peer.

Getting there won’t be easy.

Written by Drew Neisser

Listen Here | From Renegade Marketers Unite, Episode 423: Unlocking PR-able B2B Research

What does it take to create B2B research that journalists can’t resist?

In this episode, Drew Neisser sits down with research experts Becky Lawlor of Redpoint Content and Curtis Sparrer of Bospar PR to reveal the secrets of crafting and pitching impactful studies that capture media attention.

In this episode:

• Becky Lawlor shares the top three mistakes to avoid in research design, emphasizing the importance of aligning with media trends, targeting the right audience, and writing effective survey questions.
• Curtis Sparrer highlights how to create “killer stats” that drive media coverage, and explains why a successful study must tell a story that resonates beyond niche audiences. 

You’ll also learn::

• Why it’s essential to conduct quality checks on survey audiences and design
• How to adapt your findings for multiple uses, from PR to lead generation
  
• Practical tips on “news-jacking” and tapping into timely topics for maximum impact
  

Tune in to discover how to make your research stand out, earn top-tier coverage, and turn valuable insights into brand-boosting press.

What You’ll Learn

• What B2B marketers get wrong about crafting research
• What B2B marketers get wrong about pitching research studies
• How to get your study picked up by journalists

For full show notes and transcripts, visit https://renegademarketing.com/podcast/

“What’s with the penguins?” asked an F1000 marketing leader new to CMO Huddles. Explaining that a group of penguins is called a huddle, I received a nod of appreciation and a “That’s it?” Door open. I spouted that CMOs and penguins have much in common and that we donate 1% of revenue to the Global Penguin Society.

“That’s cool but what you’re really doing is leading by example,” the CMO noted.

“What do you mean?” I asked.

“Most B2B marketing is bland as sand–yours isn’t,” they exclaimed.

Compliment accepted. We moved on to their differentiation challenges.

I was reminded of this conversation in a recent visit to Boulder Beach, home to a healthy huddle of South African penguins. Formerly known as “jackass penguins” because they make a braying sound, these delightful birds reinforced various points of comparison to CMOs.

Both are Bellwethers

Living on land and sea, penguins feel the harsh impact of environmental changes earlier than most species. As we saw in 2023, CMO role elimination was a harbinger of the slowing B2B economy. Thanks to recent protection efforts, the Boulder Beach colony is growing for the first time in decades. Perhaps the Feds recent rate cuts will do the same for B2B CMOs!

Both are Curious

Once the tourists leave, the penguins of Boulder Beach like to explore the nearby village, waddling into open doors of homes and shops. To survive and thrive, CMOs must never lose their curiosity. A rapidly changing business environment requires constant questioning and assumption dumping.

Both are Nurturers

Mama penguins are never far from their chicks on the beach. Similarly, great CMOs are only as good as the teams they nurture. While CMOs needn’t fish for their younger underlings like penguins, they do need to provide a safe environment for experimentation and the occasional misstep.

Both are Ingenious Problem-Solvers

South African penguins, like the other 17 other types, are famous for finding unusual places to nest. They constantly face and work around new challenges. Great CMOs are much the same. When the going gets tough, these CMOs innovate. They transform, finding unique places for their brands to flourish.

Both Like to Gather

I witnessed several instances of penguins having fun together. Four were diving around each other and emerged on the beach in unison. Couples waddled together and embraced.

Written by Drew Neisser

Listen Here | From Renegade Marketers Unite, Episode 422: The Focus Factor: Driving B2B Success

For CMOs, strategy is as much about what not to do as it is about what to focus on.

In this episode, we explore the transformative power of focus with three marketing leaders who have mastered the art of saying “no” to the nonessential.

Highlights include:

• JD Dillon shares how Tigo Energy’s “Green Glove Service” transformed customer service into a brand differentiator and rallied the entire organization around a simple, powerful concept.
  

• Laura Beaulieu discusses her approach at Holistiplan to amplify customer voices through webinars and referrals, focusing on building an influencer pipeline that converts loyal customers into brand advocates.
  

• Kevin Briody explains how Edmentum consolidated multiple websites to simplify the customer experience, reduce internal complexity, and drive more impactful marketing through a streamlined digital presence. (He’s now CMO of Meteor Education).
  

We also cover the challenges of prioritizing in a fast-paced environment, strategies for creating impactful marketing initiatives, and the delicate balance between agility and focus. Tune in to learn how to drive greater impact by doing fewer things exceptionally well—and find out how to keep both your team and your brand centered on what matters most.

What You’ll Learn

• How 3 CMOs are driving business-bending strategic initiatives
• How to maintain long-term focus and stay agile
• The importance of customer feedback

For full show notes and transcripts, visit https://renegademarketing.com/podcast/

“We are spending more on events in 2025,” shared an excited CMO from a $160m cybersecurity company. Then other CMOs in the huddle offered variations on this theme.

Events are back. Big time.

I want to remind you that before the pandemic, 50% of B2B marketing budgets were allocated to events. Why so much, when a digital-only approach is seemingly more efficient and trackable? Sure you can track it. But digital-only is rarely as efficient or effective as advertised.

Events done right are multi-purpose magic.

Events help you close late-stage deals that otherwise would linger. Events reunite you with customers who might otherwise have churned. Events bring your employees together, to learn, to grow, to bond in a way that could never happen on Zoom. Events provide a showcase to celebrate existing partners and grab new ones. Events are launching pads for new products. Events can capture a year’s worth of content and first-party research.

Events bring humans together. And that’s magic these days.

Events are damn expensive. So, you better have experts working with you to get the most out of every event. Salespeople should earn the right to attend based on how many meetings they set up. Product experts need to be on hand to answer customer questions. And all staff in the booth should put their phones down and their smiles on. That person starring at your booth is probably a prospect.

Events are a physical manifestation of your brand.

If your booth experience is boring, so is your brand. Fix that. Events are parties disguised as business. Create a memorable experience from your premiums to your presentations. Teach your team to be gracious hosts, not rabid attack dogs.

Written by Drew Neisser

Listen Here | From Renegade Marketers Unite, Episode 421: Customer Advocacy Fuels Customer-Driven Growth

Most businesses profess to love their customers. However, only a few have figured out how to transform brand love into advocacy on a consistent and scalable basis. Enter this episode’s guests:

• Tejal Parekh, previously of Upside

• Rebecca Stone of Cisco
  

• Suzanne Reed of LBMC

In this insightful conversation, these three powerhouse CMOs share their unique approaches to turning satisfied customers into vocal advocates. They dive into the essential elements of building a successful customer advocacy program, from structuring advocacy within the organization to funding and measuring its success.

Listen in as they explore the balance between short-term goals and long-term impact, and reveal real-world strategies to elevate customer voices. Whether you’re starting from scratch or looking to scale your advocacy efforts, this episode offers invaluable insights for B2B marketers committed to fostering genuine customer loyalty and influence.

What You’ll Learn

• Where customer advocacy should sit in the org
• Marketing’s role in customer advocacy  
• How to show the business value of customer advocacy

For full show notes and transcripts, visit https://renegademarketing.com/podcast/

There should be a list of the luckiest CMOs in the world. It might be a short list. But it would celebrate the ones who work for CEOs who declare, “We’ve got to be different,” and then give the CMO the room to make it so. My remarkable conversation with one such CEO follows.

Drew: Have you spent time in marketing?

CEO: No. I came up through sales starting as a tech consultant, and eventually found myself in senior management. But having worked alongside some highly effective CMOs I came to appreciate their unique value.

Drew: What is that unique value?

CEO: I see the CMO as the Chief Strategy Officer too. They can figure out how to set us apart. To help us stand out. We’ve got to be different. Or we can't gain share in a crowded market.

Drew: Where does your CMO sit in the org?

CEO: When I arrived as CEO, the CMO reported to the CRO and I thought that was a mistake. When I brought in a new CMO, I insisted they report to me. It’s too important a role not to give them a seat at the table. And I don’t want them constrained by a CRO who doesn’t understand the power and role of marketing.

Drew: What are your expectations of your CMO?

CEO: When our new CMO started, I said MQLs, SQLs, and website traffic were table stakes. What we need from you is a strategy that will set us apart from our giant competitors. We need a distinct tone of voice, color, and story. And our product needs to be different.

Drew: It’s not a strategy if it doesn’t impact the product.

CEO: Exactly.

Drew: How much time did you give your CMO to develop the new strategy?

CEO: It took about 3 months. They needed to do their homework. Speak with customers and our tech team. Get to know the product as it was and where it needed to be to reinforce a new story. They also needed to understand the category and how our competitors were positioned.

Drew: How involved were you in the process?

CEO: I don’t like surprises so I asked the CMO to keep me informed. We had weekly 1:1s. But I didn’t want to constrain their thinking and creativity. So while I appreciated understanding the process I didn’t ask for details.

Drew: How did the strategy development process wrap up?

CEO: Really well. The CMO kept me informed, asked for input at critical junctures, and earned my trust. When they presented the new strategy, I was quite taken with it. I could see how it required us to adjust our story, content, and product.

Drew: How was the new story different from your old one?

CEO: It’s not about us. It’s about empowering our target. We don’t even talk about our software anymore.

Drew: Is it working?

CEO: Yes. We’re getting into companies we didn’t before and we’re growing faster than the category. It's also easier to recruit and retain employees. They can see how we're different and it makes them proud.

Drew: Your CMO is lucky to work for you.

CEO: You mean it's not this way everywhere?

Should you be on the "luckiest CMO" list? If yes, tell me about your CEO.

Written by Drew Neisser

“Pretend you’re a baker and have to explain everything, like how bread rises to a high schooler” shared a CMO from a $325mil software company. When I stopped laughing, I realized the serious genius in this spicy recommendation.

Rather than stew over the lack of understanding in the C-suite of how marketing works and what marketers do, I’ve jumped directly to the acceptance stage. There’s simply no time for denial, anger, bargaining, or depression. We knead an educational recipe for the C-suite, so why not bake this analogy to its fullest?

First, here’s a basic recap on how bread rises. Yeast, a tiny living organism, eats the sugar, producing gas, causing the dough to puff up like a balloon! An adolescent might relabel the fermentation process unforgettably as “yeast farts.” Stay with me.

Why B2B marketing is like making bread and yeast farts:

1. Ingredients Selection (Strategy Development): Just as you choose specific ingredients for the type of bread you want to make, in B2B marketing, you start by understanding your market, defining your target, and developing a strategy. "Flour" is your product, "water" your market research, and "yeast" your creative ideas. Get this combo wrong, and your strategy falls flat.
2. Mixing the Dough (Creating Campaigns): Once you have your ingredients, you mix them to form dough. In marketing, this is like creating campaigns—bringing together messaging, content, and channels. Your specific mix determines the overall consistency and effectiveness of your marketing efforts.
3. Fermentation (Building Brand Awareness + Engagement): In bread-making, yeast farts. In B2B marketing, this step is akin to brand awareness and engagement. As your campaign gains traction, customers become aware and engage with your brand. Warning: this stage smells suspicious in the boardroom!
4. Proofing (Nurturing Leads): After fermentation, bread dough is left to proof, allowing it to rise further. In marketing, this is like lead nurturing. You can’t rush bread breaking or efforts to close the sale. Instead, you let it develop, ensuring that prospects are fully engaged and ready. This stage is critical for converting interested prospects into loyal customers.
5. Baking (Closing the Sale): Finally, the dough goes into the oven and transforms into bread. In marketing, this is the sales process where leads convert into paying customers. The heat (or pressure) applied at this stage needs to be just right—too much, and the bread burns (you lose the sale); too little, and it stays undercooked (the sale doesn’t close).
6. Cooling and Serving (Customer Retention and Advocacy): After the bread is baked, it needs to cool. In marketing, this is where you focus on customer retention and turning satisfied customers into advocates. Ideally, this is when you make your customers hunger for more (renew, upsell, cross-sell) and generate referrals.

All analogies are imperfect. But this one is tasty. What’s your favorite marketing analogy?

Written by Drew Neisser

Listen Here | From Renegade Marketers Unite, Episode 419: Reimagine GenAI: Creative Applications Beyond Efficiency

What if AI could do more than save time—what if it could engage employees, excite customers, and inspire creativity? In this episode of Renegade Marketers Unite, Drew Neisser chats with the inventive Jenny Nicholson to uncover how B2B marketers can transform their approach using generative AI.

From reimagining decision-making to turning everyday tasks into playful, monster-slaying missions, Jenny shares innovative ways AI can spark creativity and boost engagement. Tune in to for real-world examples and insights on AI’s true promise—to build more human experiences and transform the way we work.

Key Takeaways:

• Unlock AI’s potential for creativity, not just efficiency
• Explore fresh ideas for team engagement and customer interaction 
• Why every marketer should experiment with AI to push boundaries

Perfect for B2B marketers looking to take their AI strategies to the next level!

What You’ll Learn

• Why GenAI use should focus on creativity (not efficiency)
• How to use AI to make mundane tasks more fun
• How GenAI can improve customer and employee experiences

For full show notes and transcripts, visit https://renegademarketing.com/podcast/

“Founders can be blinded by ambition” shared a CMO from a Series C start-up, “so occasionally you need to ground them with a ‘meanwhile on Reality Ranch’ response.” Marveling at this CMO’s chutzpah, my mind exploded with questions.

Reality Ranch: Grounding Ambitious Founders

The first question is, “Do ambitious founders need to visit Reality Ranch, and if so under what circumstances? Steve Jobs famously used a “reality distortion field” to bend the company, shareholders, and Apple products to his vision. That worked out well for shareholders though it didn’t make Jobs a model boss.

Legendary founder Ted Turner (CNN, Cartoon Network, TBS, TNT, etc.) knew he was on the right track the more “experts” told him he was delusional and a victim of “magical thinking.”

Successful founders are visionary. They have to be. Unfortunately, they are also rare.

The Ambition-Vision Confusion

Your more typical founder easily confuses ambition with vision. They also confuse ambition with leadership. Such was the case for our Reality Ranch-resident CMO. Their CEO had led the company to $50 million in ARR by personally driving product development and being the lead salesperson. They identified a niche, filled an unmet need, raised tons of VC funding, and then hit a wall. No amount of wishful thinking could help them cross the proverbial chasm.

This founder hadn’t built an enduring company. They launched a product.

The Challenge of Unrealistic Requests

Now back to our daring CMO. Was trying to ground this ambitious CEO in reality an effective play? It depends. In this case, it felt right because the CEO had just requested that the CMO increase the inbound pipeline by 30% while cutting the budget by an equal percentage. As I covered in an earlier post, CMOs are not miracle workers. No amount of distorted reality could fill the delta between the upward goal and the downward budget.

I asked former FBI hostage negotiator and bestselling author Chris Voss (Never Split the Difference), how he would respond to such a request from a CEO. His first suggestion was to say, “Do you want me to fail?” This reframes the CEO’s request as a fruitless exercise and connects the CEO with the undesired outcome. Visionary or not, most CEOs do not want their employees to fail.

Reframing for Success

Reframing challenging requests is a skill, that all leaders, especially CMOs need to hone. Voss talks about this at length in his book. He successfully stalled various kidnapper demands for large sums of money in 24 hours by asking, “How am I supposed to do that?” While the CMOs listening to Voss and my conversation admired this response, they didn’t think it would be effective with their CEO.

They imagined that conversation going down like this:

CMO responds to a crazy request from the CEO, with, “How am I supposed to do that?”

The CEO says, “That’s your problem, figure it out, or I’ll find someone who can.”

When times are tough, it can get ugly. Fast.

Finding the right words to move your CEO from an untenable position, isn’t easy. What words have you used to bring a boss back from the brink?

Written by Drew Neisser